[Yakuman]

First, let me thank you for your site. You have some of the most honest poker site reviews on the Net.

Right now, I am trying to crush Bodog. If loose+agressive+stupid=gold mine, then I'm panning away. I mean, really, where does Calvin Ayre find these idiots, anyway?

I'm looking for a way to suck maximum value from these morons. My standard tactic has been to wait for AA, KK, or flopped sets and then push, but the winrate doesn't impress me much. I can find no way to play TPTK or two pair because these guys draw on anything.

1.) I could play more suited connectors and suited aces, but I hate paying 10bb to see the flop with my A7s.

2.) I could try to limp into the pot with anything and hope to hit. Both pot odd and implied odds seem to point that way, but those cards would have to hit the flop pretty hard.

3.) I have tried making a spectacle of myself in the chat box, but it seems to have no affect on how the donks play their hands.

Got any ideas? I think I am missing the obvious.

[Beat The Fish]

Hey Yakuman,

Thanks for the compliments and welcome to the Forum. I hope that we'll be seeing more of you...

They certainly are awful at Bodog.

My response to your thread actually started getting so long that I decided to make it its own article. I'll post the link up tomorrow.

-Josh

[Beat The Fish]

Here's the article in which my responses are included: http://www.beatthefish.com/poker-strategy/beating-wild-online-poker-tables.html

Hope that you don't mind me using your text for guidance... Let me know what you think.

[dezza]

Hey Yakuman, you're right about bodog. Absolutely incredibly horrible players. Hyper agressive ring game and they usually hold garbage hands. Problem is, the bodog shuffling program seems to favour these idiots and that may be why they are doing it over and over again.

I cashout all my money (initial deposit plus some winnings) from here some months ago. These days I play their daily $1000 freeroll and accumulate any winnings then cashout and redeposit into my regular room. Am definately not depositing here. This way it's less frustrating when dealing with free money and the satisfaction that those horrible horrible players aren't gonna get my cash

[Buckeyepride]

This strategy is good for whatever limit you play, but I feel it is more crucial when you play lower limit since the play is going to be worse. In other words, more bad players = bad decisions= more money for you. I usually 3 table .25/.50...

Edited by Admin: This was a great post that I've made into a feature article with my comments here: Beating Low Stakes Games

[jslavi01]

If your style is any variation of tight aggressive, the flop
percentage at the tables you play would optimally be about 45-50%. That leaves enough limpers for you to raise up your strong hands in late
position, and enough pot equity...

Edited by Admin: This was a great post that I've turned into its own article. I started a new "Player-Submitted" section of the Strategy Section and featured this one here: Getting Started Against the Fish. I've also written some of my comments. Tell me what you think.

[Buckeyepride]

All valid points, especially about the profitablilty for the 40%-50% range tables. I would say I do not have a defined style due to how I analyze hands/table dynamics. This doesnt just mean I change gears, its just that I let my opponents define how they play then I adjust. In general though, my play is tight/aggressive early position/loose-very loose aggressive late position, especially if no one has raised. I will raise about 85-90% with any 2 cards from the cutoff/button if no one is in the pot and im against rather weak or passive opponents. Notice I did not exclude maniacs from the equation. I will often raise an unraised pot simply because I can outplay them after the flop and I have position. Another point I would like to bring up is marginal hands. At lower limits, marginal can mean just about anything from bottom pair-top pair weak kicker. Given how weak most players are, I have calculated that hands with A,k,q with a kicker higher than an 8 do very well simply because they are better than the average range of other hands including them IE k-7, a-5,which people routinely play. If you are holding K9 from middle/late position, would you rather call and have 6+ people in the pot or make a decent raise and play 2-3 handed? Personally, Ill trust my judgement, raise to thin the field, then play the flop accordingly. Im not saying play them like a monster, but against calling stations and people who constantly limp in, I will raise/fold about 30/70 to 40/60 respectively depending on how aggressive the players to my left are. Do they defend to much? Do they reraise? Will they call anything? These marginal hands do make money, but they have to be played in the correct situations. For novices I put them up there with playing AJ. I play AJ extremely well and that is due to experience. Most people have trouble playing it because they will frequenly be guessing if its good. Its all a matter of feel and betting patterns. If you flop something strong, bet it strong and know what caliber your opponents are before losing a chunk of money on a borderline decision. For most, sitting back and playing good hands can make a decent sum of money, however, a lot more can be made by playing less than premium hands while making very good decisions.

[jslavi01]

Agreed. I was actually going to include a little paragraph on the art letting go of dominated hands. It's very important to be able to lay down K-7 when you're in late position facing a few raises.

Do you have pokertracker? You can't use it for bodog, but for pretty much every other site you can use it. It's a very, very powerful database program which collects hand histories of you and the opponents at your table. It allows you to examine your profitability for each hand, gives you an aggression factor evaluation preflop and on each street, betting patterns, blind position, etc. It's worth every penny.

In middle/late position I'll frequently let go of K-9o and below to a bunch of limpers. As far as A-x, I consider anything lower than 9 to be trash and just as unprofitable as, say 6-10. As a newbie, I was leaking about $10/week overplaying A9o, so I just stopped playing it for a while. Having said that, I think the largest pots I've won are with A7s and 22.

Limpers and calling stations are a different breed, a whole other topic. So are maniacs. OK, gotta work...more later.

[Buckeyepride]

This is in response to #1 of yakumans original post: If you are at a table that has relatively bad players (meaning theyve shown down lots of strange holdings like K2o early pos, 4-8, j-4, anything like that) and its getting raised to anything over 6 times the BB preflop, you simply have to reraise preflop with any decent holding. If there are a few maniacs or just people who play way too aggressive out of position, you have to risk a little bit and fight back. In games like this I will usually reraise with any ace above A10 and hands like KJ-KQ suited and any pair above 8's. Remember, this is only my PoV. Other people in this game would prefer waiting for big pocket pairs QQ-AA or AK which is perfectly acceptable. Just remember, if 6 BB is standard, then a big raise preflop definintely doesnt mean someone is holding a big hand. This is where swings come in. If you decide to play back, your bankroll can have some major ups and downs simply because when you reraise, you wont have the best hand. As the admin to the forum put in one the strategy columns, even maniacs get dealt aces or kings sometimes. Most of the time they have junk though, and I want them to pay dearly when they try to play like Gus or Daniel because they simply dont have the prowess.

[Beat The Fish]

Great discussion, guys... This is more like it!

I hope you don't mind, but I'm actually going to compile your responses into a couple of articles on the site because they're great. More details over the weekend. Keep it up.

[Beat The Fish]

Alright, I added a new "Player-Submitted" section of the Strategy Section and featured Joe's responde here: Getting Started Against the Fish. I'm going to work on some of the good advice by Buckeye and make it an article as well. Check that one out and let me know what you think of my comments. Good job, guys. On a side note, Buckeye hit the nail on the head: bad players who love to draw are the BEST players to have at your table. While you may lose to suck outs in the short-term, this is the type of player that you will win the most from in your long-term poker career. That, plus the idea that it you need to raise more than the "standard amount" of 3-4BB online are key concepts.

[Beat The Fish]

I've also added my comments to Buckeyepride's article here: Beating Low Stakes Games. Let me know what you guys think.